Game Mechanics - Bezoar, Adhesive Bandage, Armor Polish type accessories anti-cheese system and how it works (2024)

Stellar Mastodon 267 said:

Do you realize how de powered the ankh charm/shield will be? This suggestion should be put under that Terraria Bad Ideas thread.

Click to expand...

@Stellar Mastodon 267 this isn’t an acceptable reply in the suggestion section. From what I recall, although the forum staff hasn’t had to talk to you directly regarding the rules of offering constructive criticism, you’ve been around the suggestion section well enough to have seen other members be reminded that rude and dismissive comments regarding suggestions aren’t welcome here.

If you don’t like a suggestion, move on to something else please. If you want to discuss the suggestion, it’s required that you be civil and polite. Telling someone their suggestion belongs in the Terraria Bad Ideas thread isn‘t cool.

Please read through our Criticism Guidelines and the more detailed Expectations post.

I tend to think most suggestions to nerf commonly used items or techniques are far too extreme, but I don't really see any problems with this one.

I don't think the game is really missing anything without it, but this feels like a completely fair nerf. And I didn't even like the Philosopher's Stone nerf.

Most of the debuffs Ankh Charm and its components protect you from are just simply annoying rather than inhibiting (Confused and Cursed are the only exceptions I can think of, and those are so rare that I'd only ever wear this in *extremely* specific places). As such, I actually think Ankh Charm is a pretty  bad accessory, and I would only ever use it  for quick swapping; remove that, and you've made it basically useless.

I also think that quick-swapping to remove the debuff is a fun little optimization, and shouldn't be removed; just because it isn't intended doesn't mean it's hurting the game.

TurboClide said:

Ankh Shield won't be underpowered if you will really use it as developers intended, not just cheese it to delete debuffs.

Click to expand...

It will. You’re sacrificing an accessory slot for this thing and that cost is far, far too high for what it does. Very very few enemies inflict Cursed, Confused, or Stoned and all of the other debuffs are either circumventable or just not impactful enough to bother preventing.

Orchamut said:

I tend to think most suggestions to nerf commonly used items or techniques are far too extreme, but I don't really see any problems with this one.

I don't think the game is really missing anything without it, but this feels like a completely fair nerf. And I didn't even like the Philosopher's Stone nerf.

Click to expand...

It's not about we like it or not. It's about using items as developers intended.

Coleyohley said:

Most of the debuffs Ankh Charm and its components protect you from are just simply annoying rather than inhibiting (Confused and Cursed are the only exceptions I can think of, and those are so rare that I'd only ever wear this in *extremely* specific places). As such, I actually think Ankh Charm is a pretty  bad accessory, and I would only ever use it  for quick swapping; remove that, and you've made it basically useless.

I also think that quick-swapping to remove the debuff is a fun little optimization, and shouldn't be removed; just because it isn't intended doesn't mean it's hurting the game.

Click to expand...

It does hurting the game. Literally same logic as Philosopher Stone.

Ankh Charm has lifespan of 2 minutes. Players immediately combine it with Obisian Shield to get one of the most iconic accessories in the game.

TurboClide said:

It's not about we like it or not. It's about using items as developers intended.

Click to expand...

Re-Logic very often abstains from making certain changes due to community feedback; it is absolutely about whether we like it or not.

Dapling said:

It will. You’re sacrificing an accessory slot for this thing and that cost is far, far too high for what it does. Very very few enemies inflict Cursed, Confused, or Stoned and all of the other debuffs are either circumventable or just not impactful enough to bother preventing.

Click to expand...

What stops you from using Ankh Shield while in biomes where these debuffs can be iflicted to Player? It's simple, you can take it off right after you are done.

I personally use Frozen Shield by the Lunar Event instead of Ankh Shield. For Moon Lord it's better, but in most other scenarios Ankh Shield is a win.

Coleyohley said:

Re-Logic very often abstains from making certain changes due to community feedback; it is absolutely about whether we like it or not.

Click to expand...

Majority hate the fact that you can't cheese Philosopher Stone now. Yet I don't think devs will gona regret their solution.

TurboClide said:

It does hurting the game. Literally same logic as Philosopher Stone.

Click to expand...

The difference here is that shorter Potion Cooldown is actually a powerful effect; immunity to these debuffs, with the exception of about 3 exceedingly rare ones, is not.

TurboClide said:

What stops you from using Ankh Shield while in biomes where these debuffs can be iflicted to Player? It's simple, you can take it off right after you are done.

Click to expand...

Opportunity Cost is what stops us; immunity to these debuffs is simply not a strong enough effect to warrant me wearing this accessory over damage, defense, mobility, or other utility.

Making it decay faster rather than instantly also means that any time you do get inflicted with one of the very few punishing debuffs, you simply have to camp it out and wait, rather than quickly swapping it and getting on with your task. That sounds boring and tedious, and it's a direction I think the game would be worse for going in.

TurboClide said:

I personally use Frozen Shield by the Lunar Event instead of Ankh Shield. For Moon Lord it's better, but in most other scenarios Ankh Shield is a win.

Click to expand...

Have you ever played without Ankh Shield? Go try it, you may not even notice a difference; I certainly do not. These debuffs simply are not common enough or impactful enough for me to bother with the item.

Coleyohley said:

Have you ever played without Ankh Shield? Go try it, you may not even notice a difference; I certainly do not.

Click to expand...

Then don't use Ankh Shield and its derivatives at all if you really don't see a difference. And don't cheese it either

TurboClide said:

What stops you from using Ankh Shield while in biomes where these debuffs can be iflicted to Player? It's simple, you can take it off right after you are done.

Click to expand...

The thing that stops me there is the simple fact that all except three debuffs are not worth blocking in the first place.
And those three debuffs are inflicted by these enemies:

Of these enemies, Medusa and Giant Cursed Skulls are the only ones that have any real chance of inflicting the debuff by the time you have access to this accessory, as all the other sources of it simply are not a threat and will likely never hit you anyway due to either being prehardmode, basic fighter ais, or extremely frail fliers. However, both of the enemies it actually DOES protect against are quite niche as well, here’s why:
- Medusas are only found in an extremely small minibiome and you simply do not need to explore new areas by this point of the game, so they will never ever take you by surprise and once they lose that element they are simply no longer threatening.
- Giant Cursed Skulls glow extremely brightly in the dark of the dungeon making it impossible for them to sneak up on you, are very rare, and their projectile is easily dodgeable even in the tight quarters of the dungeon.
In short: this accessory is niche at best because every single actually threatening debuff inflicted by actually threatening enemies is not effected by it. You’re better off just using Putrid Scent to increase damage and crit chance and reduce aggro as protection, or something. And putrid scent is a pretty mediocre pick.

TurboClide said:

Then don't use Ankh Shield and its derivatives at all if you really don't see a difference. And don't cheese it either

Click to expand...

I already rarely ever use this trick because the debuffs are a non-issue, but when I do, it feels like I have outsmarted the game, that I know the mechanics of the system well enough to exploit them like this; simply wearing the accessory beforehand to prevent the debuffs is less engaging and less interesting to me because it's not an action I'm taking in the moment to counter something, it's simply an effect I no longer have to deal with, and I think actively countering it is kinda fun.

Cheesing it like this actually  adds enjoyment to the game for me, rather than taking it away; remove the cheese and you may as well just remove the item from the game, for all I care.

And in your own words, if you hate the cheese so much, how about  you just stop using it? Does how other people play the sandbox game really bother you that much?

Coleyohley said:

I already rarely ever use this trick because the debuffs are a non-issue, but when I do, it feels like I have outsmarted the game, that I know the mechanics of the system well enough to exploit them like this; simply wearing the accessory beforehand to prevent the debuffs is less engaging and less interesting to me because it's not an action I'm taking in the moment to counter something, it's simply an effect I no longer have to deal with, and I think actively countering it is kinda fun.

Cheesing it like this actually  adds enjoyment to the game for me, rather than taking it away; remove the cheese and you may as well just remove the item from the game, for all I care.

And in your own words, if you hate the cheese so much, how about  you just stop using it? Does how other people play the sandbox game really bother you that much?

Click to expand...

You've not outsmarted the game. You just humiliate it using such types of exploits.

And I don't cheese it, by the way. I don't care about other Players, it's up to you. But these things should be nerfed just like Philosopher Stone. Period.

Like other people have said, this isn't that comparable to philosopher's stone. The stone has a powerful effect that is always useful (as seen by charm of myths being recommended as one of the better survivability items for early to mid hardmode), and so even after quick swapping was removed, people still use the item. The philosopher's stone wasn't the only item to have swapping removed, hallowed armour got this treatment as well. As of 1.4.4.8, swapping off of hallowed armour also removes the holy protection buff. Hallowed armour is still a fantastic armour set without the cheese, and is very commonly used. I agree with removing swapping on both of these, as you were gaining a powerful effect for free.

On the other hand, debuff immunities are not particularly powerful, and don't come up particularly often. As a result, if swapping them was removed, people that were using swapping wouldn't switch to using them as intended, like they did for hallowed set and charm of myths, but rather wouldn't use them at all (besides maybe bezoar vs. queen bee, ankh shield vs ice queen, or on hardcore runs to prevent deaths to stoned or curse). In their current state, these items are QoL at best in 95% of situations, and without swapping they'd almost never see use (at least by players that don't fall for the long crafting tree = good fallacy). Because of this, I think these items should stay as they are.

chewythebigblackdog said:

Like other people have said, this isn't that comparable to philosopher's stone. The stone has a powerful effect that is always useful (as seen by charm of myths being recommended as one of the better survivability items for early to mid hardmode), and so even after quick swapping was removed, people still use the item. The philosopher's stone wasn't the only item to have swapping removed, hallowed armour got this treatment as well. As of 1.4.4.8, swapping off of hallowed armour also removes the holy protection buff. Hallowed armour is still good without the cheese, and is still a fantastic armour set. I agree with removing swapping on both of these, as you were gaining a powerful effect for free.

On the other hand, debuff immunities are not particularly powerful, and don't come up particularly often. As a result, if swapping them was removed, people that were using swapping wouldn't switch to using them as intended (like they did for hallowed set or charm of myths), but rather wouldn't use them at all (besides maybe bezoar vs. queen bee, ankh shield vs ice queen, or on hardcore runs to prevent deaths to stoned or curse).

Click to expand...

I want this so badly. Let people use Ankh Shield as intended when needed, not just for cheesing.

Also Nurse was semi-nerfed. Now you can't heal with Autopause. She won't ever be nerfed fully (no heal while boss fights) because there are a lot of weak Player and low-effort YouTube videos with Insta-Houses, Insta-Arena, insta-Hellevator and Nurse healing while boss fights videos.

Majority don't like the idea that Nurse was nerfed. But they nerfed it anyways. Well, sort of. I hope bezoar type accesories will be nerfed, too.

TurboClide said:

Also Nurse was semi-nerfed. Now you can't heal with Autopause.

Click to expand...

you can still heal with autopause, the nerf was just making her more expensive.

Heath04🌳 said:

you can still heal with autopause, the nerf was just making her more expensive.

Click to expand...

No. Autopause is not working while talking to the nurse.

TurboClide said:

No. Autopause is not working while talking to the nurse.

Click to expand...

To clarify, you need to actually open the npc's shop window for autopause to work (which the nurse doesn't have). In the past, you simply needed to talk to the NPC to have the game pause with autopause enabled. As far as I can tell, this change isn't actually mentioned in any patch notes, though it is intended behaviour according to a bug report on the forums, so it likely happened in 1.4.0.1 (first 1.4 release).